week 10.

May 14, 2025 - A certain WhatsApp group

Me: What do you guys currently think about masturbation?

My reason for asking about this topic is two-fold, I guess.

1. Contrary to some people on this chat, I hold the opinions of the gedoilim (jewish or non-Jewish, throughout the ages) in high regard. And (I believe) they have been particularly adamant about the sinfulness of masturbation.

On the face of it, this seems completely incomprehensible to me. And yet, I have not accepted that are simply wrong. Maybe they are un-simply wrong, but it seems to me to be too much of a stretch to just discount the entire theory, particularly when it has been talked about by so many people from so many traditions for so long

Long story short, the sin’s incomprehensibility intrigues me.

1. Masturbation, to me, is almost like the ultimate taboo. In the sense that we are even more ashamed to talk about it than to talk about sex. And yet it seems like a very big part of every human male’s (and to an extent female) life. The secretiveness paired with its ubiquitousness makes me think that perhaps others have vastly different opinions and experiences related to masturbation.  And I am curious to learn more about it.

Ok I guess there’s a third point:

1. I am very conflicted about masturbation. I don’t know where that conflict comes from (yes Asher, I know you blame religion) and I don’t even know what it consists of. But I do, if I’m being honest, feel a sense of uneasiness about masturbating. And since I don’t have any real glimpse into that tension, I thought that maybe others might

S: There is something about trusting oneself enough to know that just enjoying one's own body and the pleasure that you're able to bring about, especially in a way that's not harmful to anybody else in the privacy of your own space, to not allow anybody else's opinions to actually get into that space and change the way that you see it and the way you experience it. I feel like there's something to working though that discomfort / disconnection with yourself.

Me: That resonates with me. Like masturbation being a metaphor for my overall relationship with myself. Like my unease with masturbating could be related to a general unease with how I treat myself. At the same time, I am still deeply curious why someone like the Shulchan Aruch would say that masturbation is the greatest sin. I am deeply curious what he means by that or what led him to think that.

S: Okay, to expound further before my better sense gets a hold of me, there are many times where I'll be having sex or I just finished or whatever and I'll feel guilty for the amount of enjoyment I had, what gave me that enjoyment to me, what was exciting me in that moment, what satisfaction I was getting, and all the more so when masturbating. It's a very similar thought and feeling and I think that yeah, it does very much reflect on my overall relationship with myself. If I do not feel deserving, not even like guilty or that something was wrong, like if I don't feel deserving of that enjoyment. Then yeah, there's something that needs to be worked through or reconnected with that relationship of self.

Me: Yeah, “deserving” is a key word here 😭 De-serve

S: So yeah, to continue on that point of deserving, without getting too metaphysical, it really does reflect on the way that we think that we should be treated and what we think we deserve in our own life. If we can't even allow ourselves to treat our own body with the graciousness and beneficence of just allowing ourselves to enjoy it and enjoy ourselves. And we can get overly caught up in the conscious experience, if you will, of being aware of the actions and the pleasure we're getting and etc, etc, and disregard just treating that animal instinct, if you will, just nicely. And I think to point out something, to connect it with something you said before about it being a substitution for other harmful connections, behaviors, actions, whatever, a hundred percent. There's a double-sided sword there, but there's something so basic there and so utilizable in a positive way that it boggles the mind for it to be just immediately thrown out of hand, as you say, like the greatest sin.

Me: What if I’m soooo detached from life itself (ie. The participation in reproduction and its supports) that I can’t even comprehend how masturbation is bad? What if I’ve sterilized my life so much that masturbation even seems healthy?? Like a person who uploads their consciousness to a computer so that they don’t have to contend with their body. I’ve backed myself into such a tight corner that my limbs have gone dead. And the Mechaber is taking such an exaggerated position in order to erect a lighthouse on a starless foggy night.

E: you’re pointing at ‘authoritative figures’ to ask your question, when u can just ask it to yourself and then actually be in a position to attempt to get answers…….

It would be best to not blame the shame around anything pleasureful or sexual on ‘religion’, but to seriously ask ‘myself’ why the fuck do I always resist enjoyment? What is so wrong about life being easy? Why can’t I, without any guilt whatsoever, pleasure myself? Does it really have to be a sinful act of pleasure? I am choosing, rather, the opposite extreme. All pleasure is called for. There is no ‘cheating’, I am simply having a nice time following my heart’s desire. If I hold back on that, it is because of trust issues between humans. I can choose to commit to someone, because I want them to stay with me. But other than that, there is no reason why masturbation, sexual activities, or any pleasure-seeking adventures should be looked at as something not to be done, or to be done with constraint. Liberate yourself. It is time.

You can read Rebbi Nachman nanach if you wan’t to get lost in the eternal conflict of sexual repression and sinful dread. We must be free and build the dramatic ever-so-great future.

Humans that connect with others and do not Other themselves in elitist or isolationist ways. Let’s take shabbat for example. It should be celebrated with any interested parties, not practiced as something that isolationist Jews in exile practice to hold onto some old nostalgia and create stronger isolation communities. It should be shared with the world. When we talk about the honor of god, of resting as an important state of creation, it should be done together with others, as part of the world. Let Jewish wisdom be a beautiful source of wisdom to be shared with the entire cosmic body, no exception. Expansive judaism spreads its wings, it does not curl up inward in fear and trauma. Expansive judaism expands and includes, it doesn’t ‘lead’ and it does not follow. It offers and participates. It invites and participates.

I’m sure your esteem for leaders and great people has lots of value which I can use and integrate, but I for now will try to battle with it and destroy it so that we can first be ultimately liberated and free to figure out good ways to be. Once that is established, we can start to incorporate the important positions of great people. I believe you are literally as great as buddha and the mechaber. And i want to hear your very own opinion on masturbation. I don’t care to hear another defense of antiquated self-torture. Free yourself from slavery because nobody is coming to the rescue.

One week later:

Me:

1. There is a difference between something being bad and something being sinful.

2. Masturbation is not bad. It is sinful.

3. Masturbation is a sin.

4. Therefore, to try to find reasons why masturbation is bad is a fool’s errand.

5. The act of procreation is the holiest act in existence (in fact it is the act of god).

6. (True) masturbation is a complete abuse of the holiest act.

7. Since procreation is the greatest mitzvah, masturbation is the greatest aveirah (it is the highest desecration of the very holiest).

Two points for clarification:

1. Why is procreation the holiest act?

2. What do I mean by “true”?

The answer to the first question is available to me, but is hard to communicate.

The answer to the second question is not precisely available to me.

E: what is 'sinful’?

Me: I am not capable of answering this question right now. Maybe in the future. Or when we see each other in person. What I can say is that if you meditate on your question, you will probably arrive at some answer. You specifically. Not most people 😂 I think you are open to the energy that is contained in that word.

One further point:

What is the meaning of “abuse”?

This too I have the answer to, but am unable to communicate (yet). But I think it’s available to everyone in this chat anyways.

E: The punishment for the sin is experiencing the result of the act.

Me: Yes! I would say it a bit differently though: The punishment of the sin is to exist in a state of sinning. That is, the punishment of masturbation is to exist at a distance from procreation (ie at a distance from one’s self).

E: Based on how the resulting outcome is perceived, will be the perception of the act causing the outcome. Karma. If the outcome is undesired, the act is considered a sin - for it creates an undesired outcome.

Me: Hm I am not talking of things in terms of causation. But that’s certainly true. I am talking about living next door to your beloved and never going over to say hello.

S: Without hesitation, I will disagree with every single one of your statements except for #1. As for the first one, I disagree with hesitation.

The conversation it’s generated, though, I’m grateful for.

Me: Me too :)